Transcription
Lina: Life in post-war Thessaloniki
Michalis: . First of all, are you the younger or the older one?
Lina: The older.
Michalis: So you were born four years after they got married.
Michalis: Your father was already working in commerce.
Lina: He was, my father started and developed in the accounting field. He started with the title of accountant, he built a very good reputation. Nothing was ever lacking from the house.
He worked tirelessly and was, let's say, the first or among the first, those we would call freelancers today, who really... really had in one day how many businesses to supervise.
Michalis: So he didn't work for any office.
Lina: No. He worked initially at one place, at Sidiropoulos, where he had hardware, yes. And then, as a permanent employer until he retired, it was the Karasos dyeworks. Both businesses were at the slaughterhouses. So the area of today's Kalochoriu.
Lina: Dad started his day at four-thirty in the morning. He took his bath, he was a traditional Jew and read the Tefillah in his bathrobe. I imagine from those years, because this habit continued until the end.
Five o'clock, five-thirty, with a glass of milk, mom prepared everything for him, dad left because he lived again. He went to the slaughterhouses, first went to Sidiropoulos, then went to Karasos, and after twelve-thirty, one o'clock, until evening he went to other businesses and kept books.
I remember dad and my brother at this table, spreading out the big books, the accounting books, blessed holidays and especially such times when the balance sheets started coming out, the balance sheets, the inventories.
I don't think he enjoyed his life and their life as a couple in the sense "Ah, the war is over, we have some money, let's go out and have fun now." No, there are the children, there's having what was called "reserve." The so-called "reserve."
Lina: I think all people have this, the Jews, I don't know, the insecurity. So we had very good ones, their entertainment and ours was in friends' houses, like Mafou's, like Diana's, like other Jews who socialized, who were brotherly friends of my dad who went to America later.
Lina: And I'll tell you the story from, like this, with a proposal of the Capon story where my dad became, bought the daughter.
This is, I write it in my book too, it's a custom called "mercar" from the word "buy." When the first child in the family dies, the second one that's born, so that bad fate leaves the child, must be symbolically bought by some friend and they call it "mercadica" or "mercadico" which means "bought one" (masculine or feminine).
Searching for this I found, it happened to me like this, I wanted to, I saw on television the name "agorasti" (bought one) of a lady and I searched and found that really in Pindus or Northern Greece there exists, to exorcise evil, they also do this custom and that's why it's called "agorastos" or "agorasti."
So my dad had as "mercadica" Stella who at this moment is a psychiatrist in America and then she left.
Lina: So gradually the circle of very close friends was shrinking, who probably had pre-war relationships too. There's a Comfort who was the dental technician with his children when we went into the yard somewhere towards Evzonon from that area where many Jews lived in residences.
They were the first to introduce us to the love and passion for Mickey Mouse and for the classics.
Michalis: The classics.
Lina: The illustrated comics. The illustrated classics. Well, and the love of study because they were very smart children who read constantly.
These friends left so we socialized. As I said, also with many Christians who were all the mountain gang. And they continued. And later with beloved Jewish friends.
Lina: But my mother also kept friendships from the camp. Which means there were women who took us by the hand and we went visiting in the afternoons to her friends.
These Alberto Nar also mentions, these two sisters they called Istra Sasonica, they were the two twins I think who went together to Czechoslovakia then returned and live in Thessaloniki. The surname Sason, these had come from Didymoteicho, there was a lady Eleonora, there was Mrs. Volioti Rene Volioti, she married and changed her surname.
Also another close friend of hers, Stella who married and is Trigonidou, Soli Levi, Carolina Levi, we had a very nice social but it was family environment from house to house.
Lina: And when we went to restaurants it was also very happy when some money started coming so life started changing so restaurants came in but not taverns, not nightlife, they were family meals in restaurants, the famous Strati by the sea. In Caminicia somewhere in Aretsou at Remvi, it was always family and nice though.
Michalis: So growing up generally you have the experience of going visiting houses.
Lina: Ah yes that was it and then cinema every Sunday afternoon early.
Michalis: Yes and these ladies, most of these ladies your mother knew from the camps.
Lina: She knew from the camps. We can say that most of them married Christians after the war. These surnames I'm telling you are the only ones I know that there was one who went to Israel and visited us, visited us two-three times.
No, others married Jews. Let's say Leonard's grandmother married a Jew. Frita's father and Alberto Sevi's married co-religionists. That is no, no these were the exceptions that at least to my ears and eyes.
Michalis: When my brother was born and we went to live.
Lina: What brings me.
Michalis: Well, 1955.
Lina: Well, 1955. Well, 1955. Well, 1956.
Michalis: And then is when you leave the house on Avallino.
Lina: We leave the house because they give it for compensation, they agreed. And then my dad buys the opposite one being built on Dimitriou Gounari, at this moment 1926.
Michalis: Dimitriou Gounari.
Lina: 1932 and then 1926. And it's now an apartment.
Michalis: And it's now an apartment.
Lina: On the first floor. The period when this new house of ours was being built, not grandfather's, the one directly opposite, a road separates them and if I remember it's called meth... I don't remember what it's called, the one that connects Navarinou Square with the racetrack.
There was the corner of dad's old house. But this perpendicular one, when you go to Thessaloniki, look for it, there are all the hamburgers, such things, all student life, there at Navarinou Square.
And the house is a pink house, if you go you'll see it. A pink apartment building in front of the ancient ruins.
Michalis: Is it the same apartment building where you lived?
Lina: No.
Michalis: Ah.
Lina: That was the opposite one and dad bought this one here.
Michalis: OK.
Lina: The other was here.
Michalis: Yes.
Lina: So from our new one we could see the new one that was built for grandfather, let's say.
Michalis: And in this house you stayed until you left, until you came of age.
Lina: From this new one.
Michalis: The common house.
Lina: Yes, yes, yes.
Michalis: Great.
Lina: But while it was being built we moved to Kalapothaki street which is a narrow street after the waterfront there and there my brother was born, there the circumcision happened, there our first school years happened.
Lina: There I started, while we were at Navarinou Square, I went to kindergarten at an amazing school at YMCA, kindergarten, with Mrs. Evangelia, a strict gray-haired tall woman with blue eyes who wore a pied de coq coat as we say in fabric terms, white and black, excellent.
It smelled more, it stayed. It smelled more like a nanny, English style nanny, like that and probably unmarried she would be.
Michalis: When you say YMCA, this is Christian.
Lina: It's inside the YMCA, inside the YMCA in Thessaloniki, it had a kindergarten branch then.
Michalis: Were there other Jewish children?
Lina: I don't think so, I don't think so.
Michalis: And they took you there for convenience, it was close to home.
Lina: First of all it's very close to home. It was, obviously it was exemplary.
Michalis: Ah, it was.
Lina: And then, for first grade since we moved, I went to Ioannidios School, also an exemplary school, I went and saw it when I went to Thessaloniki two years ago, I went with friends there and saw it.
There were elections then, I don't know which elections now, June European elections, what it was. They at least let us photograph the outside, Ioannidios School, it still exists.
Lina: When we moved to Kalapothaki, then I went to Macedonian. To Macedonian Educational Institutions, together with many other Jewish children.
Michalis: The community...
Lina: Wait a minute.
Michalis: You went to Kalapothaki while the house was being built, you said.
Lina: Yes, yes, yes.
Michalis: Well, how long did you stay in this house?
Lina: We stayed until our new one on Dimitriou Gounari was built. First grade elementary at Ioannidios. We leave and go to Kalapothaki. And there they enroll me in Macedonian Educational Institutions and for what reason.
First of all it had a bus. The school was in Pylaia. And we lived in the center of Thessaloniki, Kalapothaki, with Karolou Dil.
Michalis: It's quite a distance.
Lina: Very long distance.
Lina: Well, the community had contracted with schools like Valangiannis, Schina, Korai, Macedonian Educational Institutions. And so the Jewish children, depending on where they lived and their parents' choices, went to these schools.
We were at Macedonian, we were quite a few in the class, we made very good friendships with non-Jewish children, we had absolutely no anti-Jewish problem in school, none at all. We lived in a very open environment.
Lina: Teachers came from Israel and took us during religious hours, that was it.
Michalis: How many hours per week did this happen?
Lina: If it was two hours of religious studies, twice a week, that was it.
Michalis: And what did you do?
Lina: There they taught us Hebrew and it was more Hebrew. And they were Israeli teachers who had no connection to Thessaloniki.
Michalis: None.
Lina: They didn't speak Greek, they didn't speak...
Michalis: No.
Lina: And we had a great time because we met many children who by chance later, I would find them again at Navarinou Square, I would find them again, those who lived on Vasilissis Sofias, I would find them later like Panteliti, Marlena.
Others who lived, Caro Loundil who was at the new house closer to Karapothaki, parties started, parties had started.
No, we had an excellent time at Macedonian and then when Macedonian ended my brother went to Schina.
Michalis: What do you know finished?
Lina: Elementary finished.
Michalis: I finished elementary.
Lina: Ah, it was only elementary then.
Michalis: It was only elementary.
Lina: OK.
Michalis: And then your brother went to Schina.
Lina: Then my brother started, but for him they chose Schina, I don't know for what reason.
Michalis: For high school now until the end.
Lina: No, all elementary, we're talking about elementary.
Michalis: Ah, elementary only.
Lina: We're always talking about elementary.
Michalis: OK.
Lina: And then there's a separation, you'll hear a lot that some schools, high schools in Thessaloniki have remained historic. Like the 5th, like the 2nd I think, all these are on Vasilisis Olgas, where many went from pre-war and post-war times. There were many Jewish children.
The 5th especially and the 2nd that became a consulate, you'll see they have memorial plaques. And there's also the name of Alberto Soustiel.
Michalis: Ah, the father's brother.
Lina: Ah, look for the father's brother.
Michalis: Is there a reason why many Jewish children went there or simply because they were most of the schools in Thessaloniki or there were many simply and they went.
Lina: Many probably went. The choice of my dad's brother from Navarinou Square to go to Vasilissis Olgas to that high school, well it's a distance. It's a distance those years. For some reasons they went there or they were very good schools.
They were very good schools and note that at the 5th high school there's a monument to Jewish students who left for the Holocaust. A donation from the National Bank.
Michalis: So at Schina your brother finished elementary.
Lina: Yes and then I also finished Macedonian. And then the parents decided that I would follow French education. So I took exams at Kalamari. While my brother later at Anatolia, the American one.
Michalis: And there you finished school too.
Lina: There I finished school and took Panhellenic exams for the French Philology Department.
Michalis: Both of you.
Lina: No. I'm talking about my brother. My brother left for Israel for studies. For me they chose this education. It turned out very well for me.
Lina: Also a very open school. Even though it was the nuns, they had an excellent education system. Which was also Greek, the classic Greek school. But they opened many horizons for us. They were modern for their time and for what they represented.
Michalis: It was a Christian school then.
Lina: 100%
But they never catechized us. They never tried to intrude on our beliefs. Anyway the community sent a letter to all schools that on Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah we wouldn't go to school. These were the only holidays and Passover if it didn't coincide with school holidays. They sent a letter there too.
So it means we didn't stand out. In the class we were four Jewish girls. I think four if I count correctly. There was Flora Fraco, Erna Nahmia, me, I think we were three.
Michalis: Her sisters...
Lina: And in all of Kalamari the Jewish girls. Three girls exceeded ten to fifteen. That is, in all classes you would definitely find a Jewish element.
With these nuns we traveled all over France at that time, all over Greece. It was really a pioneering school for what many considered. But they're nuns and what education will they give.
No religious education beyond that of the Ministry of Education and only for those who were Orthodox Christians.
Michalis: Great. And now I wanted to ask you a little about the house. You said for example that your father woke up for tefillah.
Lina: Yes it was the morning one.
Michalis: What does tefillah mean?
Lina: Tefillah. Tefillah. It's the morning prayer he must do.
Michalis: And it's not tefillin, the phylacteries.
Lina: It's not tefillin.
But definitely his stance was he took his bath and in his bathrobe sat on the couch, put on his little cap and opened the book, read while mom had all his clean clothes ready so he got dressed and dad had a nice habit.
He did tsouk tsouk tsouk to us. To wake us up. It was when he was leaving, saying I'm leaving and the time for school is approaching tsouk tsouk tsouk. And also when he came it was trin trin trin three times. Dad's coming.
Michalis: What time did your mother wake up?
Lina: My mother woke up to prepare dad's milk but gradually this started after some years. She prepared from the evening and just had to put the milk to warm up a little for dad. And then she lay down again to wake us up and then prepare us for school normally.
Michalis: And you said.
Lina: But when I went to Macedonian I inform you that I and Solon Pessach who were the first children the school bus picked up at 6:30 in the morning. So 6:30 in the morning was necessary.
At that time dad left with me or left a little earlier because he tied the laces of my first boots. Which were custom-made and were also made of hard leather. And we wore the first pants which were also custom-made. Tailor-made.
Michalis: Of course the first pants are yours.
Lina: Mine.
Michalis: The girls with the first pants.
Lina: Ah generally.
Michalis: Yes it was the fashion.
Lina: The fashion because it was cold and because we had to protect ourselves somehow. 6:30 in the morning it hadn't dawned yet and we were at the corner of Karolou Dil, me and everyone. In front of a kiosk, not a kiosk like we see now like the kiosks.
It was inside an apartment building and had only one window display and opened from that time, from 6 o'clock and was the only light and my dad left us and departed. The only concession to his time was what he made. As long as we were on Kalapothaki.
Michalis: How long.
Lina: Yes. Then he started again leaving at 5:30.
Michalis: Everyone say lived near you.
Lina: Yes we were in a narrow street. Different. And we were the first children and the last to return, we returned at 5:30 in the afternoon. That is, don't find it strange that children return now and we returned at 5:30. We were the last children the bus left.
Michalis: At Kalapothaki your brother's brit happened.
Lina: Would you like to tell us in a few words what brit is?
Michalis: If you tell me to remember that moment. I don't remember it because, okay maybe they didn't let me go inside.
Lina: But I remember when mom gave birth, I'll start from there and take you to the fire, I can't tell you. Roulis was born September 4th and it was the day the exhibition opened. Every year the exhibition opened.
And they took mom straight there. One afternoon, I remember it very intensely. Immediately dad called, went to this kiosk, called the gynecologist, the friends to come get me.
And the family of Paul Levi took me, Mr. Leon and Mrs. Carolina. And to entice me they had gotten a little turtle on the balcony so I wouldn't be sad and would play with Paul. And wouldn't complain being away from mom and dad.
They took me and I saw my mom and she was beautiful. With a wonderful thing that made some capes, quilted here, very beautiful like that. Turquoise, light orange, a salmon color I would say, with a little roll like that chubby. Beautiful baby.
Lina: And his brit. It happened as it happened in houses and the one who did brit then, if I remember correctly, because dad also called him to see the brit of his grandchildren, like for a second opinion after it had been done with Miza, was Minas from Volos. He was a circumciser.
Michalis: His surname.
Lina: I remember Alita Hazani, no. Anyway, I remember this on his face. And he did Roul's circumcision. Okay, that's what I remember.
Michalis: What is brit now?
Lina: Brit is on the 7th day, on the 8th day after the child's birth, the boy's. To honor the covenant made. With the covenant that Abraham also made with God. To be removed. For foreskin. And so it's considered that he entered the covenant of the people of Israel. Besides, brit means covenant.
Michalis: Covenant.
Lina: While milah is the operation, the procedure.
Michalis: Yes.
Lina: So a child today who has milah. The milah can be done by a surgeon, can be done in the hospital, can be done by anyone. It's not considered that he has done brit milah.
Michalis: To be considered Jewish.
Lina: Now if religion turns a blind eye to this. It's for other reasons that don't concern us.
In the third part of the interview, Ms. Lina describes her unique experience of anti-Semitism during her childhood, dietary habits and kashrut at home, as well as the existence of Jewish shops in Thessaloniki. She analyzes the Sabbath traditions of lighting the menorah, observing the Sabbath, and the frequency of visits to the synagogue. She vividly describes the Yom Kippur holiday, the personalities of the synagogue, and the special atmosphere of religious ceremonies. He concludes with reflections on the post-war atmosphere in Thessaloniki, where tolerance towards Jews gradually turned into acceptance, and the silence of parents about the Holocaust in order to protect their children.
Ms. Lina recounts her childhood in Thessaloniki in the 1950s, describing her father's working life as an accountant, the family's daily religious practices, and social life with Jewish friends who had survived the camps. She talks about the Jewish custom of “merkar,” the family's moves in Thessaloniki, her educational journey from Christian schools to the Macedonian Educational Institutions and the French school Kalamari, as well as the community's agreements with various schools for the education of Jewish children. She concludes with a description of her brother's berith (circumcision) and an explanation of the religious significance of this ceremony.
Lina Herrera
Transcription
Lina: Life in post-war Thessaloniki
Michalis: . First of all, are you the younger or the older one?
Lina: The older.
Michalis: So you were born four years after they got married.
Michalis: Your father was already working in commerce.
Lina: He was, my father started and developed in the accounting field. He started with the title of accountant, he built a very good reputation. Nothing was ever lacking from the house.
He worked tirelessly and was, let's say, the first or among the first, those we would call freelancers today, who really... really had in one day how many businesses to supervise.
Michalis: So he didn't work for any office.
Lina: No. He worked initially at one place, at Sidiropoulos, where he had hardware, yes. And then, as a permanent employer until he retired, it was the Karasos dyeworks. Both businesses were at the slaughterhouses. So the area of today's Kalochoriu.
Lina: Dad started his day at four-thirty in the morning. He took his bath, he was a traditional Jew and read the Tefillah in his bathrobe. I imagine from those years, because this habit continued until the end.
Five o'clock, five-thirty, with a glass of milk, mom prepared everything for him, dad left because he lived again. He went to the slaughterhouses, first went to Sidiropoulos, then went to Karasos, and after twelve-thirty, one o'clock, until evening he went to other businesses and kept books.
I remember dad and my brother at this table, spreading out the big books, the accounting books, blessed holidays and especially such times when the balance sheets started coming out, the balance sheets, the inventories.
I don't think he enjoyed his life and their life as a couple in the sense "Ah, the war is over, we have some money, let's go out and have fun now." No, there are the children, there's having what was called "reserve." The so-called "reserve."
Lina: I think all people have this, the Jews, I don't know, the insecurity. So we had very good ones, their entertainment and ours was in friends' houses, like Mafou's, like Diana's, like other Jews who socialized, who were brotherly friends of my dad who went to America later.
Lina: And I'll tell you the story from, like this, with a proposal of the Capon story where my dad became, bought the daughter.
This is, I write it in my book too, it's a custom called "mercar" from the word "buy." When the first child in the family dies, the second one that's born, so that bad fate leaves the child, must be symbolically bought by some friend and they call it "mercadica" or "mercadico" which means "bought one" (masculine or feminine).
Searching for this I found, it happened to me like this, I wanted to, I saw on television the name "agorasti" (bought one) of a lady and I searched and found that really in Pindus or Northern Greece there exists, to exorcise evil, they also do this custom and that's why it's called "agorastos" or "agorasti."
So my dad had as "mercadica" Stella who at this moment is a psychiatrist in America and then she left.
Lina: So gradually the circle of very close friends was shrinking, who probably had pre-war relationships too. There's a Comfort who was the dental technician with his children when we went into the yard somewhere towards Evzonon from that area where many Jews lived in residences.
They were the first to introduce us to the love and passion for Mickey Mouse and for the classics.
Michalis: The classics.
Lina: The illustrated comics. The illustrated classics. Well, and the love of study because they were very smart children who read constantly.
These friends left so we socialized. As I said, also with many Christians who were all the mountain gang. And they continued. And later with beloved Jewish friends.
Lina: But my mother also kept friendships from the camp. Which means there were women who took us by the hand and we went visiting in the afternoons to her friends.
These Alberto Nar also mentions, these two sisters they called Istra Sasonica, they were the two twins I think who went together to Czechoslovakia then returned and live in Thessaloniki. The surname Sason, these had come from Didymoteicho, there was a lady Eleonora, there was Mrs. Volioti Rene Volioti, she married and changed her surname.
Also another close friend of hers, Stella who married and is Trigonidou, Soli Levi, Carolina Levi, we had a very nice social but it was family environment from house to house.
Lina: And when we went to restaurants it was also very happy when some money started coming so life started changing so restaurants came in but not taverns, not nightlife, they were family meals in restaurants, the famous Strati by the sea. In Caminicia somewhere in Aretsou at Remvi, it was always family and nice though.
Michalis: So growing up generally you have the experience of going visiting houses.
Lina: Ah yes that was it and then cinema every Sunday afternoon early.
Michalis: Yes and these ladies, most of these ladies your mother knew from the camps.
Lina: She knew from the camps. We can say that most of them married Christians after the war. These surnames I'm telling you are the only ones I know that there was one who went to Israel and visited us, visited us two-three times.
No, others married Jews. Let's say Leonard's grandmother married a Jew. Frita's father and Alberto Sevi's married co-religionists. That is no, no these were the exceptions that at least to my ears and eyes.
Michalis: When my brother was born and we went to live.
Lina: What brings me.
Michalis: Well, 1955.
Lina: Well, 1955. Well, 1955. Well, 1956.
Michalis: And then is when you leave the house on Avallino.
Lina: We leave the house because they give it for compensation, they agreed. And then my dad buys the opposite one being built on Dimitriou Gounari, at this moment 1926.
Michalis: Dimitriou Gounari.
Lina: 1932 and then 1926. And it's now an apartment.
Michalis: And it's now an apartment.
Lina: On the first floor. The period when this new house of ours was being built, not grandfather's, the one directly opposite, a road separates them and if I remember it's called meth... I don't remember what it's called, the one that connects Navarinou Square with the racetrack.
There was the corner of dad's old house. But this perpendicular one, when you go to Thessaloniki, look for it, there are all the hamburgers, such things, all student life, there at Navarinou Square.
And the house is a pink house, if you go you'll see it. A pink apartment building in front of the ancient ruins.
Michalis: Is it the same apartment building where you lived?
Lina: No.
Michalis: Ah.
Lina: That was the opposite one and dad bought this one here.
Michalis: OK.
Lina: The other was here.
Michalis: Yes.
Lina: So from our new one we could see the new one that was built for grandfather, let's say.
Michalis: And in this house you stayed until you left, until you came of age.
Lina: From this new one.
Michalis: The common house.
Lina: Yes, yes, yes.
Michalis: Great.
Lina: But while it was being built we moved to Kalapothaki street which is a narrow street after the waterfront there and there my brother was born, there the circumcision happened, there our first school years happened.
Lina: There I started, while we were at Navarinou Square, I went to kindergarten at an amazing school at YMCA, kindergarten, with Mrs. Evangelia, a strict gray-haired tall woman with blue eyes who wore a pied de coq coat as we say in fabric terms, white and black, excellent.
It smelled more, it stayed. It smelled more like a nanny, English style nanny, like that and probably unmarried she would be.
Michalis: When you say YMCA, this is Christian.
Lina: It's inside the YMCA, inside the YMCA in Thessaloniki, it had a kindergarten branch then.
Michalis: Were there other Jewish children?
Lina: I don't think so, I don't think so.
Michalis: And they took you there for convenience, it was close to home.
Lina: First of all it's very close to home. It was, obviously it was exemplary.
Michalis: Ah, it was.
Lina: And then, for first grade since we moved, I went to Ioannidios School, also an exemplary school, I went and saw it when I went to Thessaloniki two years ago, I went with friends there and saw it.
There were elections then, I don't know which elections now, June European elections, what it was. They at least let us photograph the outside, Ioannidios School, it still exists.
Lina: When we moved to Kalapothaki, then I went to Macedonian. To Macedonian Educational Institutions, together with many other Jewish children.
Michalis: The community...
Lina: Wait a minute.
Michalis: You went to Kalapothaki while the house was being built, you said.
Lina: Yes, yes, yes.
Michalis: Well, how long did you stay in this house?
Lina: We stayed until our new one on Dimitriou Gounari was built. First grade elementary at Ioannidios. We leave and go to Kalapothaki. And there they enroll me in Macedonian Educational Institutions and for what reason.
First of all it had a bus. The school was in Pylaia. And we lived in the center of Thessaloniki, Kalapothaki, with Karolou Dil.
Michalis: It's quite a distance.
Lina: Very long distance.
Lina: Well, the community had contracted with schools like Valangiannis, Schina, Korai, Macedonian Educational Institutions. And so the Jewish children, depending on where they lived and their parents' choices, went to these schools.
We were at Macedonian, we were quite a few in the class, we made very good friendships with non-Jewish children, we had absolutely no anti-Jewish problem in school, none at all. We lived in a very open environment.
Lina: Teachers came from Israel and took us during religious hours, that was it.
Michalis: How many hours per week did this happen?
Lina: If it was two hours of religious studies, twice a week, that was it.
Michalis: And what did you do?
Lina: There they taught us Hebrew and it was more Hebrew. And they were Israeli teachers who had no connection to Thessaloniki.
Michalis: None.
Lina: They didn't speak Greek, they didn't speak...
Michalis: No.
Lina: And we had a great time because we met many children who by chance later, I would find them again at Navarinou Square, I would find them again, those who lived on Vasilissis Sofias, I would find them later like Panteliti, Marlena.
Others who lived, Caro Loundil who was at the new house closer to Karapothaki, parties started, parties had started.
No, we had an excellent time at Macedonian and then when Macedonian ended my brother went to Schina.
Michalis: What do you know finished?
Lina: Elementary finished.
Michalis: I finished elementary.
Lina: Ah, it was only elementary then.
Michalis: It was only elementary.
Lina: OK.
Michalis: And then your brother went to Schina.
Lina: Then my brother started, but for him they chose Schina, I don't know for what reason.
Michalis: For high school now until the end.
Lina: No, all elementary, we're talking about elementary.
Michalis: Ah, elementary only.
Lina: We're always talking about elementary.
Michalis: OK.
Lina: And then there's a separation, you'll hear a lot that some schools, high schools in Thessaloniki have remained historic. Like the 5th, like the 2nd I think, all these are on Vasilisis Olgas, where many went from pre-war and post-war times. There were many Jewish children.
The 5th especially and the 2nd that became a consulate, you'll see they have memorial plaques. And there's also the name of Alberto Soustiel.
Michalis: Ah, the father's brother.
Lina: Ah, look for the father's brother.
Michalis: Is there a reason why many Jewish children went there or simply because they were most of the schools in Thessaloniki or there were many simply and they went.
Lina: Many probably went. The choice of my dad's brother from Navarinou Square to go to Vasilissis Olgas to that high school, well it's a distance. It's a distance those years. For some reasons they went there or they were very good schools.
They were very good schools and note that at the 5th high school there's a monument to Jewish students who left for the Holocaust. A donation from the National Bank.
Michalis: So at Schina your brother finished elementary.
Lina: Yes and then I also finished Macedonian. And then the parents decided that I would follow French education. So I took exams at Kalamari. While my brother later at Anatolia, the American one.
Michalis: And there you finished school too.
Lina: There I finished school and took Panhellenic exams for the French Philology Department.
Michalis: Both of you.
Lina: No. I'm talking about my brother. My brother left for Israel for studies. For me they chose this education. It turned out very well for me.
Lina: Also a very open school. Even though it was the nuns, they had an excellent education system. Which was also Greek, the classic Greek school. But they opened many horizons for us. They were modern for their time and for what they represented.
Michalis: It was a Christian school then.
Lina: 100%
But they never catechized us. They never tried to intrude on our beliefs. Anyway the community sent a letter to all schools that on Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah we wouldn't go to school. These were the only holidays and Passover if it didn't coincide with school holidays. They sent a letter there too.
So it means we didn't stand out. In the class we were four Jewish girls. I think four if I count correctly. There was Flora Fraco, Erna Nahmia, me, I think we were three.
Michalis: Her sisters...
Lina: And in all of Kalamari the Jewish girls. Three girls exceeded ten to fifteen. That is, in all classes you would definitely find a Jewish element.
With these nuns we traveled all over France at that time, all over Greece. It was really a pioneering school for what many considered. But they're nuns and what education will they give.
No religious education beyond that of the Ministry of Education and only for those who were Orthodox Christians.
Michalis: Great. And now I wanted to ask you a little about the house. You said for example that your father woke up for tefillah.
Lina: Yes it was the morning one.
Michalis: What does tefillah mean?
Lina: Tefillah. Tefillah. It's the morning prayer he must do.
Michalis: And it's not tefillin, the phylacteries.
Lina: It's not tefillin.
But definitely his stance was he took his bath and in his bathrobe sat on the couch, put on his little cap and opened the book, read while mom had all his clean clothes ready so he got dressed and dad had a nice habit.
He did tsouk tsouk tsouk to us. To wake us up. It was when he was leaving, saying I'm leaving and the time for school is approaching tsouk tsouk tsouk. And also when he came it was trin trin trin three times. Dad's coming.
Michalis: What time did your mother wake up?
Lina: My mother woke up to prepare dad's milk but gradually this started after some years. She prepared from the evening and just had to put the milk to warm up a little for dad. And then she lay down again to wake us up and then prepare us for school normally.
Michalis: And you said.
Lina: But when I went to Macedonian I inform you that I and Solon Pessach who were the first children the school bus picked up at 6:30 in the morning. So 6:30 in the morning was necessary.
At that time dad left with me or left a little earlier because he tied the laces of my first boots. Which were custom-made and were also made of hard leather. And we wore the first pants which were also custom-made. Tailor-made.
Michalis: Of course the first pants are yours.
Lina: Mine.
Michalis: The girls with the first pants.
Lina: Ah generally.
Michalis: Yes it was the fashion.
Lina: The fashion because it was cold and because we had to protect ourselves somehow. 6:30 in the morning it hadn't dawned yet and we were at the corner of Karolou Dil, me and everyone. In front of a kiosk, not a kiosk like we see now like the kiosks.
It was inside an apartment building and had only one window display and opened from that time, from 6 o'clock and was the only light and my dad left us and departed. The only concession to his time was what he made. As long as we were on Kalapothaki.
Michalis: How long.
Lina: Yes. Then he started again leaving at 5:30.
Michalis: Everyone say lived near you.
Lina: Yes we were in a narrow street. Different. And we were the first children and the last to return, we returned at 5:30 in the afternoon. That is, don't find it strange that children return now and we returned at 5:30. We were the last children the bus left.
Michalis: At Kalapothaki your brother's brit happened.
Lina: Would you like to tell us in a few words what brit is?
Michalis: If you tell me to remember that moment. I don't remember it because, okay maybe they didn't let me go inside.
Lina: But I remember when mom gave birth, I'll start from there and take you to the fire, I can't tell you. Roulis was born September 4th and it was the day the exhibition opened. Every year the exhibition opened.
And they took mom straight there. One afternoon, I remember it very intensely. Immediately dad called, went to this kiosk, called the gynecologist, the friends to come get me.
And the family of Paul Levi took me, Mr. Leon and Mrs. Carolina. And to entice me they had gotten a little turtle on the balcony so I wouldn't be sad and would play with Paul. And wouldn't complain being away from mom and dad.
They took me and I saw my mom and she was beautiful. With a wonderful thing that made some capes, quilted here, very beautiful like that. Turquoise, light orange, a salmon color I would say, with a little roll like that chubby. Beautiful baby.
Lina: And his brit. It happened as it happened in houses and the one who did brit then, if I remember correctly, because dad also called him to see the brit of his grandchildren, like for a second opinion after it had been done with Miza, was Minas from Volos. He was a circumciser.
Michalis: His surname.
Lina: I remember Alita Hazani, no. Anyway, I remember this on his face. And he did Roul's circumcision. Okay, that's what I remember.
Michalis: What is brit now?
Lina: Brit is on the 7th day, on the 8th day after the child's birth, the boy's. To honor the covenant made. With the covenant that Abraham also made with God. To be removed. For foreskin. And so it's considered that he entered the covenant of the people of Israel. Besides, brit means covenant.
Michalis: Covenant.
Lina: While milah is the operation, the procedure.
Michalis: Yes.
Lina: So a child today who has milah. The milah can be done by a surgeon, can be done in the hospital, can be done by anyone. It's not considered that he has done brit milah.
Michalis: To be considered Jewish.
Lina: Now if religion turns a blind eye to this. It's for other reasons that don't concern us.