Transcription
Interview by Michalis Daskalakis Giontis with Ilias Koen
Michalis: Today is Friday, December 6, 2024, and the time is 2:35. We are at the Etz Chaim synagogue. My name is Michalis Daskalakis Giontis and we are conducting an interview with Mr. Ilias Koen.
Ilias: Hevel Havalim. I will explain what this means at the end. My name is Ilias Koen, son of Menachem and Simcha. I was born in the 1940s, early 40s, in the old neighborhood of Psyrri, specifically in Psyrri Square.
Our house was on Karaiskaki Street, next to today's bakery "Koulourakia of Psyrri." In the past, the bakery had a sign that said "German Bakery," which brought back bad memories for my mother, my grandmother, and us due to the events with Germany. We made the association.
On the same street, Karaiskaki, there used to be another Koen family, the Vourtsa family, who was a fanatical smoker, and when he died, his family even threw a pack of cigarettes into his grave. On the same street there was another family called "Mrs. Strea" with her son.
Also on Karaiskaki Street was the famous factory, large by the standards of the time, that made ice refrigerators, ovens, and various other tin products - the famous "Mordos Depastas" factory. Mordos Depastas made a special oven for my mother to use only during Passover. It was the only oven in Greece that a family used specifically for Passover, while others used Passover plates, forks, spoons, etc. It was a unique case.
My grandfather, named Joseph Asseas, was a famous antique dealer. He has the only grave, the only monument in both the first and third cemeteries, that mentions his profession as "antique dealer." In Latin it was "antiquer." Perhaps from him I inherited the bug for collecting.
On Karaiskaki, at the first corner with Aesopou Street, where there's still a kosher restaurant today, lived a wealthy Jewish family - Eleonora Levi, a widow, who when her husband died, gave most of her belongings to various people. Among others, she gave me the first items that started my involvement with collecting: a gramophone and gramophone records. That's how the bug began, to get involved and collect material of Jewish content for many years. I've been involved in collecting material for over 60 years.
My collections have been published in many newspapers, on front pages and main pages, by journalists I didn't even know, who came and found me themselves. In everyone's life, some things are more interesting, others less interesting, some are romantic, others horrific, and over the years everything gets lost.
What I want to say is, there are cases where others managed, with their knowledge or beautiful stories, to turn them into books or even movies.
There's one case that no one has mentioned - an escape from the trains, from the German transports, by two Greek Jews. One was my uncle Asseas Simos, and the second, whose name escapes me right now, emigrated to Israel after the war. My uncle is no longer alive; I don't know if the other person is still alive.
Let me finish what I started at the beginning, which means in Greek "vanity of vanities," which has been given through the Septuagint translation a pessimistic view of life. I advise anyone who reads it - it will change their entire mindset and mentality for the better.
This story, I honestly didn't know it, I didn't know this text. While searching through "chartourra" - that's what collectors call it when newspapers, photographs, calendars, postcards are all mixed together - I found 15-20 years ago 10 photocopied pages. I understood it was something religious, Jewish, in any case.
I brought it to the late, eternal memory, Chief Rabbi, and he told me this is Ecclesiastes. For those who don't know, Ecclesiastes is a Jewish text that we read in the synagogue during the period between Yom Kippur and Sukkot. For those who don't know. And it contains this memorable phrase.
Michalis: You said your parents were Menachem and Simcha. Were they born in Athens?
Ilias: Let me tell you this. My mother's family were the famous ones - the father is famous, as I told you, an antique dealer, whom no one will mention. My father was born in Volos. He was the brother of Joseph Koen, the famous obstetrician with the largest clinic that existed in Volos at the time. They had delivered many celebrities of the area. There are other cases of Jews too.
It wasn't just the Yousourooms. There were two famous Jews who specialized in old objects, famous ones - everyone would come to them. They had given me many things too. One was Yousouroom - coincidentally named Yousouroom, the first name escapes me now, not due to age - who was a great coin collector. In his house where I had gone, somewhere in Petralona, he had two huge cups, I'm not exaggerating, filled with coins.
The second collectible merchant was Makis Nikokyris, who specialized in old tin children's toys.
Michalis: Where was your mother born?
Ilias: My mother was born where the Stoa of Attalos is now. She was born where the Stoa of Attalos is, and from childhood we knew the area very well. I've actually written a book - "The Jewish Presence in the Old Neighborhood of Psyrri." Unfortunately, my computer and the copy I had were destroyed. I've saved a few pages and I'm trying again through memory to put it together.
Since we mentioned this, on Aesopou Street there was Simos the Plumber, Asseas, and I knew both the Yousourooms and their father, who were distinguished Jews - Noah Yousouroom and Daniel Tzafos - they were old Jews in the good sense and in the sense of contribution. I remember them during holiday periods, because my family was poor, they would come and bring us various treats.
Another case I can tell you about is that I knew Yousouroom's warehouse very well and had even been inside - I knew it as a huge plot that they had converted into a warehouse. Outside there were various transporters. Back then transport was done differently. There were motorcycles with a basket next to them for carrying things, or the basket was in the back.
Among them was a Jewish transporter, Judah Asseas, who particularly impressed me because he had a Zündapp motorcycle. Zündapp motorcycles were among those that had remained in Greece from the Germans. The German army had German Zündapp motorcycles. These puttered along and had a large seat so the motorcycle driver could sit comfortably.
When we went down to the Jewish school from Karaiskaki - the old Jewish school was in Thiseio - I would pass through Ermou Street and there was a Jewish umbrella merchant, Sevillas.
Michalis: Where was Yousouroom's warehouse?
Ilias: Yousouroom's warehouse was on Theklas Street. Going down Karaiskaki, the street is Theklas and it meets Ermou. At the corner of Theklas and Ermou was Yousouroom's large warehouse.
Michalis: Do you know where Noah Yousouroom lived?
Ilias: We actually knew that Noah Yousouroom had their house in Thiseio. I think the street was called Irakleidou, where the tram also ran. It was one of the few Jewish houses that had the Star of David on the outside of the balcony. It wasn't the only house. I had spotted one or two other houses that had the Star of David symbol outside. One was, I think, on Marathon Street going toward Iera Odos. On Marathon Street from Piraeus Street, from there and somewhere else.
Michalis: What year were you born?
Ilias: I was born in 1943. As I told you at the beginning, the early years of the 1940s.
Going to the Jewish school because it was close - and most others say God forgive him, Lygos took us by car - we walked because we were close. Both my brother and I, I'll tell you about my brother too, walking to the Jewish school I would often see outside, from where we are now, there was the Community Polyclinic below. The Community Polyclinic with many doctors volunteering without being paid. Dr. Arouch, Dr. Koenga, Dr. Galmidis.
Michalis: Where was the school?
Ilias: The school was in Thiseio.
Michalis: Where exactly, do you remember?
Ilias: One street from Irakleidou, near the end of Irakleidou, in a narrow street.
Michalis: And what was it called?
Ilias: Jewish school, actually they called it something with Dikastou, the elementary school also had Greek classes. There, in the early years after the war, the ladies of the Jewish community and various donors who made donations offered abundant food to all the school students. We ate there every day and we would even say a prayer before starting the meal we received. We Jews had to say this, and then they would say the Birkat Hamazon when we finished.
Outside the school, national holiday celebrations were held - March 25th, October 28th - and they would place chairs in the courtyard where officials would sit. I remember as if it were now, from the front rows sat the then president of the community, Zacharias Vital with his white hair, and I would recite a poem differently with Zacharias Vital in front of me.
I remember with my late mother, when we hid in Atalanti from the Germans, an uncle of ours took us there, who was a traveling salesman and knew all the areas of Attica and had some friends who hid us. My mother told me that while we were hiding under different names, merchants would present tallitot, the Jewish prayer shawls, as scarves to merchants. The same thing happened in markets.
I heard in the early 1950s, perhaps ironically, perhaps truthfully, people saying, "These are goods from Jewish houses." They would say it, perhaps ironically, perhaps as reality - there were many goods from the looting of Jewish houses.
Michalis: Your mother, you said she was the daughter of Joseph Asseas. Where was Joseph Asseas born?
Ilias: Joseph Asseas was born in Asia Minor and came with the Jews who left and came in 1922, and in Larissa he met our grandmother. Our grandmother was from Larissa.
Michalis: What was her name?
Ilias: Sultana, Sultana Asseas. They had many children. One of them was the one who escaped from the trains as I told you. Another one in Corfu, married, was trying to escape to Albania, and in a way we don't know, his boat sank and he was lost and we don't know what happened.
The name Asseas exists in Judaism, also Asseo. There are families with both Asseas and Asseo.
Many people were interested in collecting old Jewish material. One case is, if you know that when the Apostle Paul came to Berea and went to the synagogue, in one of the Torah scrolls - you don't know this case - the rabbis put a note that someone came and spoke to us. Because this note existed and so that not even one letter would be damaged, it was considered treif and they put it aside.
We're talking about approximately 2,000 years ago when he had come. From what they say historically, this Torah scroll disappeared with the descent of the Germans. When the Germans came to Berea, among the first things they took, they say they took this Torah scroll too.
Later in the interview, Elias Cohen describes the religious and social life of the Jewish community in Athens during the post-war period. He mentions the gradual decline of traditional customs as families moved to the suburbs, but also the deep religiosity of his own family, which even kept a special oven for Passover. He describes his education at the Jewish school in Thissio, which had 80-100 students, the international aid received from Jewish communities abroad, and the scholarship he received to study at Casa d'Italia. He mentions important figures such as Rabbi Elias Bartzilai and the community's cantors, as well as his participation in the historic moment of the raising of the Israeli flag in 1948. The interview also records the difficulties of inheritance claims after the Holocaust and the rich Jewish entrepreneurship in Athens, offering a comprehensive portrait of the community in the post-war reconstruction.
Elias Cohen, born in 1943 in Psyrri, shares memories of the Jewish community in Athens. He describes his family history, with his grandfather Joseph Asséa being a renowned antique dealer, and recounts stories from the neighborhood where Jewish families such as the Yousouroums lived. He mentions the Jewish school in Thissio, the period of German occupation when his family hid in Atalanta, and a rare case of escape from the death trains. As a collector of Jewish artifacts for 60 years, Cohen offers valuable testimony to the history of Greek Jewry and the preservation of the memory of a community marked by the events of the 20th century.
Ilias Koen
Transcription
Interview by Michalis Daskalakis Giontis with Ilias Koen
Michalis: Today is Friday, December 6, 2024, and the time is 2:35. We are at the Etz Chaim synagogue. My name is Michalis Daskalakis Giontis and we are conducting an interview with Mr. Ilias Koen.
Ilias: Hevel Havalim. I will explain what this means at the end. My name is Ilias Koen, son of Menachem and Simcha. I was born in the 1940s, early 40s, in the old neighborhood of Psyrri, specifically in Psyrri Square.
Our house was on Karaiskaki Street, next to today's bakery "Koulourakia of Psyrri." In the past, the bakery had a sign that said "German Bakery," which brought back bad memories for my mother, my grandmother, and us due to the events with Germany. We made the association.
On the same street, Karaiskaki, there used to be another Koen family, the Vourtsa family, who was a fanatical smoker, and when he died, his family even threw a pack of cigarettes into his grave. On the same street there was another family called "Mrs. Strea" with her son.
Also on Karaiskaki Street was the famous factory, large by the standards of the time, that made ice refrigerators, ovens, and various other tin products - the famous "Mordos Depastas" factory. Mordos Depastas made a special oven for my mother to use only during Passover. It was the only oven in Greece that a family used specifically for Passover, while others used Passover plates, forks, spoons, etc. It was a unique case.
My grandfather, named Joseph Asseas, was a famous antique dealer. He has the only grave, the only monument in both the first and third cemeteries, that mentions his profession as "antique dealer." In Latin it was "antiquer." Perhaps from him I inherited the bug for collecting.
On Karaiskaki, at the first corner with Aesopou Street, where there's still a kosher restaurant today, lived a wealthy Jewish family - Eleonora Levi, a widow, who when her husband died, gave most of her belongings to various people. Among others, she gave me the first items that started my involvement with collecting: a gramophone and gramophone records. That's how the bug began, to get involved and collect material of Jewish content for many years. I've been involved in collecting material for over 60 years.
My collections have been published in many newspapers, on front pages and main pages, by journalists I didn't even know, who came and found me themselves. In everyone's life, some things are more interesting, others less interesting, some are romantic, others horrific, and over the years everything gets lost.
What I want to say is, there are cases where others managed, with their knowledge or beautiful stories, to turn them into books or even movies.
There's one case that no one has mentioned - an escape from the trains, from the German transports, by two Greek Jews. One was my uncle Asseas Simos, and the second, whose name escapes me right now, emigrated to Israel after the war. My uncle is no longer alive; I don't know if the other person is still alive.
Let me finish what I started at the beginning, which means in Greek "vanity of vanities," which has been given through the Septuagint translation a pessimistic view of life. I advise anyone who reads it - it will change their entire mindset and mentality for the better.
This story, I honestly didn't know it, I didn't know this text. While searching through "chartourra" - that's what collectors call it when newspapers, photographs, calendars, postcards are all mixed together - I found 15-20 years ago 10 photocopied pages. I understood it was something religious, Jewish, in any case.
I brought it to the late, eternal memory, Chief Rabbi, and he told me this is Ecclesiastes. For those who don't know, Ecclesiastes is a Jewish text that we read in the synagogue during the period between Yom Kippur and Sukkot. For those who don't know. And it contains this memorable phrase.
Michalis: You said your parents were Menachem and Simcha. Were they born in Athens?
Ilias: Let me tell you this. My mother's family were the famous ones - the father is famous, as I told you, an antique dealer, whom no one will mention. My father was born in Volos. He was the brother of Joseph Koen, the famous obstetrician with the largest clinic that existed in Volos at the time. They had delivered many celebrities of the area. There are other cases of Jews too.
It wasn't just the Yousourooms. There were two famous Jews who specialized in old objects, famous ones - everyone would come to them. They had given me many things too. One was Yousouroom - coincidentally named Yousouroom, the first name escapes me now, not due to age - who was a great coin collector. In his house where I had gone, somewhere in Petralona, he had two huge cups, I'm not exaggerating, filled with coins.
The second collectible merchant was Makis Nikokyris, who specialized in old tin children's toys.
Michalis: Where was your mother born?
Ilias: My mother was born where the Stoa of Attalos is now. She was born where the Stoa of Attalos is, and from childhood we knew the area very well. I've actually written a book - "The Jewish Presence in the Old Neighborhood of Psyrri." Unfortunately, my computer and the copy I had were destroyed. I've saved a few pages and I'm trying again through memory to put it together.
Since we mentioned this, on Aesopou Street there was Simos the Plumber, Asseas, and I knew both the Yousourooms and their father, who were distinguished Jews - Noah Yousouroom and Daniel Tzafos - they were old Jews in the good sense and in the sense of contribution. I remember them during holiday periods, because my family was poor, they would come and bring us various treats.
Another case I can tell you about is that I knew Yousouroom's warehouse very well and had even been inside - I knew it as a huge plot that they had converted into a warehouse. Outside there were various transporters. Back then transport was done differently. There were motorcycles with a basket next to them for carrying things, or the basket was in the back.
Among them was a Jewish transporter, Judah Asseas, who particularly impressed me because he had a Zündapp motorcycle. Zündapp motorcycles were among those that had remained in Greece from the Germans. The German army had German Zündapp motorcycles. These puttered along and had a large seat so the motorcycle driver could sit comfortably.
When we went down to the Jewish school from Karaiskaki - the old Jewish school was in Thiseio - I would pass through Ermou Street and there was a Jewish umbrella merchant, Sevillas.
Michalis: Where was Yousouroom's warehouse?
Ilias: Yousouroom's warehouse was on Theklas Street. Going down Karaiskaki, the street is Theklas and it meets Ermou. At the corner of Theklas and Ermou was Yousouroom's large warehouse.
Michalis: Do you know where Noah Yousouroom lived?
Ilias: We actually knew that Noah Yousouroom had their house in Thiseio. I think the street was called Irakleidou, where the tram also ran. It was one of the few Jewish houses that had the Star of David on the outside of the balcony. It wasn't the only house. I had spotted one or two other houses that had the Star of David symbol outside. One was, I think, on Marathon Street going toward Iera Odos. On Marathon Street from Piraeus Street, from there and somewhere else.
Michalis: What year were you born?
Ilias: I was born in 1943. As I told you at the beginning, the early years of the 1940s.
Going to the Jewish school because it was close - and most others say God forgive him, Lygos took us by car - we walked because we were close. Both my brother and I, I'll tell you about my brother too, walking to the Jewish school I would often see outside, from where we are now, there was the Community Polyclinic below. The Community Polyclinic with many doctors volunteering without being paid. Dr. Arouch, Dr. Koenga, Dr. Galmidis.
Michalis: Where was the school?
Ilias: The school was in Thiseio.
Michalis: Where exactly, do you remember?
Ilias: One street from Irakleidou, near the end of Irakleidou, in a narrow street.
Michalis: And what was it called?
Ilias: Jewish school, actually they called it something with Dikastou, the elementary school also had Greek classes. There, in the early years after the war, the ladies of the Jewish community and various donors who made donations offered abundant food to all the school students. We ate there every day and we would even say a prayer before starting the meal we received. We Jews had to say this, and then they would say the Birkat Hamazon when we finished.
Outside the school, national holiday celebrations were held - March 25th, October 28th - and they would place chairs in the courtyard where officials would sit. I remember as if it were now, from the front rows sat the then president of the community, Zacharias Vital with his white hair, and I would recite a poem differently with Zacharias Vital in front of me.
I remember with my late mother, when we hid in Atalanti from the Germans, an uncle of ours took us there, who was a traveling salesman and knew all the areas of Attica and had some friends who hid us. My mother told me that while we were hiding under different names, merchants would present tallitot, the Jewish prayer shawls, as scarves to merchants. The same thing happened in markets.
I heard in the early 1950s, perhaps ironically, perhaps truthfully, people saying, "These are goods from Jewish houses." They would say it, perhaps ironically, perhaps as reality - there were many goods from the looting of Jewish houses.
Michalis: Your mother, you said she was the daughter of Joseph Asseas. Where was Joseph Asseas born?
Ilias: Joseph Asseas was born in Asia Minor and came with the Jews who left and came in 1922, and in Larissa he met our grandmother. Our grandmother was from Larissa.
Michalis: What was her name?
Ilias: Sultana, Sultana Asseas. They had many children. One of them was the one who escaped from the trains as I told you. Another one in Corfu, married, was trying to escape to Albania, and in a way we don't know, his boat sank and he was lost and we don't know what happened.
The name Asseas exists in Judaism, also Asseo. There are families with both Asseas and Asseo.
Many people were interested in collecting old Jewish material. One case is, if you know that when the Apostle Paul came to Berea and went to the synagogue, in one of the Torah scrolls - you don't know this case - the rabbis put a note that someone came and spoke to us. Because this note existed and so that not even one letter would be damaged, it was considered treif and they put it aside.
We're talking about approximately 2,000 years ago when he had come. From what they say historically, this Torah scroll disappeared with the descent of the Germans. When the Germans came to Berea, among the first things they took, they say they took this Torah scroll too.