Michalis Daskalakis Yiontis: It is December 5, 2024, the time is 2:42 PM. We are at the former Jewish apartment buildings of Larissa. My name is Michalis Daskalakis Yiontis and I am here with Mrs. Luna Arar and Mrs. Anita Pinto.

First of all, when were you born?

Luna Arar: I was born in 1946 in Karditsa. I grew up there and finished high school - we called it gymnasium then. I completed all grades there and got married in 1966, so I came to Larissa.

Michalis: How many siblings did you have?

Luna: We are four siblings - three sisters and one brother. I am here married in Larissa, my two sisters are in Athens, and my brother remained in Karditsa.

Michalis: What were your parents' names?

Luna: My parents were called Sultana and Leon Kapetas.

Michalis: And your mother's maiden name?

Luna: Kapeta. Coincidentally the same surname, yes.

Michalis: When you went to school, were there other Jewish children?

Luna: No, there were no Jewish schools or Jewish education in Karditsa. I attended the third elementary school of Karditsa, which was near our house. We played with Christian children and never had any problems.

Michalis: Did you observe holidays at home then?

Luna: Coincidentally, my godmother Luna was from Larissa and was the niece and sister of Avram Sason here in Larissa, who was the rabbi then. We had some Jewish education. Besides that, I had two uncles - one from my father's side and one from my mother's side - who were very religious, knew how to read and were knowledgeable about the Jewish religion.

Michalis: Did your uncles live in Karditsa or Larissa?

Luna: No, all in Karditsa. Karditsa then had many Jews. Later they left gradually.

Michalis: How many Jews do you estimate Karditsa had?

Luna: I don't know exactly, but there were quite a few - over thirty families. Each family had at least three to four children. Later they started getting married and leaving Karditsa. Some went to Athens, others to Israel, others to America, but mainly to Thessaloniki and Athens.

Michalis: At what age did you come to Larissa?

Luna: I came at 19. As soon as I finished school, I immediately got married.

Michalis: And your husband's name?

Luna: Makis Arar - Chaim was his Hebrew name.

Michalis: Where did you live initially as newlyweds?

Luna: We came here to the Jewish apartment buildings. Then it was a joy for everyone to live here. My mother-in-law came here with her two children initially, because her house was earthquake-damaged. When we got married, they told us to stay here temporarily. The "temporarily" became 58 years that I've been married! Later we repaired the in-laws' house and they went there.

Michalis: How many children do you have?

Luna: I have three boys.

Michalis: Your children grew up in Larissa?

Luna: Here in Larissa, in this house and in this courtyard they played with many other children.

Michalis: Did they have Jewish education?

Luna: Yes, Larissa had one of the best Jewish schools - the 8th Elementary. It had many good teachers and our "amore," as we always called him, Yako Felous. He was the best who gave Jewish education to our children.

Michalis: As a married woman, did you observe customs at home?

Luna: Yes, I especially observed them a lot, because both from Karditsa where I came from, and here I happened to enter a very Jewish family. As I told you before, my mother-in-law's son was the rabbi of Athens.

Michalis: What was the rabbi's full name?

Luna: Yako Arar.

Michalis: Did you find differences between the traditions you knew from Karditsa and those you found in Larissa?

Luna: In Karditsa, my child, we didn't know much and couldn't do much. The only thing we could do was maintain Friday evening - the evening we called Sabbath. My mother made with my grandmother better food, two dishes. She made pie, egg. We knew how to say the Shema prayer. We kissed father's hand, he blessed us - up to there.

For all our major holidays - Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur - we went to Trikala. Karditsa didn't have a Jewish school and cemetery, that's why the Germans didn't take many Jews from there. They took almost no one - only one brother of my mother who was killed in Athens, and one brother of my father who went to Auschwitz but returned.

But they had been warned, and a village of Karditsa called Amaranto gathered all the Jews - around 70 people - and protected them despite their poverty.

Among all these was my first cousin, someone Viktor Venouzio. Although he was a very poor child from a poor family, he managed to become successful. But he never forgot where he started, who helped him. He made a very beautiful monument of gratitude for this village. We went and the community choir sang. All expenses were paid by Viktor Venezio.

During coronavirus, for as many people as were in the village, he sent large boxes of aid.

We went to Trikala, where there was also a cemetery - there my parents and all my grandparents are buried. We went on the eves of Rosh Hashanah, eves of Yom Kippur. We knew in advance which house to go to in Trikala - they waited for us with beds. Then people didn't go to hotels. We knew the houses we would go to. That's why still, with all the children of Trikala my age - a little older, a little younger - we are still very connected and friends.

For Purim in Karditsa, because we had very good relations and were all friends with Christians, we went to their holidays, their name days, everything they celebrated. They said: "When do you celebrate?" So our big holiday was Purim, when all Jews opened their houses and ate and Christian friends made visits.

For Passover we gathered in three houses, depending on those who knew how to read. We all gathered together and did Passover.

Michalis: How many people at a Passover dinner?

Luna: Ah, even thirty people together.

Michalis: Did everyone read the Haggadah or only...?

Luna: No, then there were no Haggadahs that were also in Greek for us to know. Three-four of the adults who knew how to read the Hebrew books read.

Michalis: Were Spanish heard on the Seder evening?

Luna: Yes, my aunt and grandfather knew Spanish well. They read some parts in Spanish too.

Michalis: Did you sing any songs?

Luna: Yes, we sang. I can't tell you specifically, but I remember they all sang very well then.

I want to say that in 1967 I got married, came to Larissa and entered the family here. I immediately became an active member of WIZO and other activities.

Michalis: Can you explain what WIZO is?

Luna: WIZO is a Jewish organization with Jewish women.

Michalis: What did WIZO do in Larissa?

Luna: In Larissa we had discussions, but the older ones also made various handicrafts, various things and sold them. There were bazaars, such things, something similar to what animal friends do now and all that.

I was always an active member of the community. In the assembly I was for years in the 25-member council up to there, and in WIZO.

Here in Larissa our Purim was only the sweets that Anita made. We definitely put three that had to have: the kompeta, baklava, kourabiedes, depending on... The kompeta was the first and those of us who didn't know - because we were young then - called the older ones and they made them for us.

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Michalis: Can you say your name again?

Anita Pinto: Anita Pinto. My maiden name was Frances. My parents grew up here in the Jewish apartment buildings, in the opposite apartment building, on the ground floor. Across from us we had Lita, Moysi with Daviko and Minos. And Alina later.

I finished the Jewish school of Larissa, which was an excellent Jewish school. Most classes we didn't do alone - we had co-teaching. That is, first-second together, second-third, third-fourth. Because the state gave us one or two teachers, the rest were paid by the community and co-teaching had to be done to cover the expenses. It was fine though, since I lived it. There was no problem.

We paraded every March 25th and every October 28th. We received our uniforms with the Greek flag. Proud that we too participated in all this celebration.

We learned Hebrew. Every day we had Hebrew and on Friday Jewish History. All this with the amore. The amore was a precious person for the community. He gave everyone Jewish education - generations and generations, many years.

That's why Larissans, wherever they married - whether in Athens, Thessaloniki, or anywhere else - know how to speak Hebrew, read Hebrew, sing Hebrew. This regarding education.

Michalis: Yaakov Felous the amore?

Anita: Yes.

Michalis: What does "amore" mean?

Anita: The amore is the teacher. "More" is teacher, "amore" the teacher - in Hebrew.

Michalis: Did the school go up to the last grade?

Anita: Six grades - elementary school. Additionally, when we went to first and second gymnasium, the amore wanted to extend our Jewish education. But this was no longer easy, because we also had foreign languages - French, English, certainly two languages. So there was no time. The gymnasiums operated morning-afternoon then - one week morning, one week afternoon.

Okay, we did Hebrew until first gymnasium. After that no - the program was tight. But this education was enough. All children who finished Jewish school - Luna's three children - know how to read Hebrew and know the Haggadah very well.

Let me answer the song you asked about before. My answer was to that: that we read the entire Haggadah in Hebrew. All of us who finished Jewish school sing by heart quite a few - three parts of the Haggadah.

When we gathered to do Passover, as Luna said, we gathered in one-two houses and thirty people. Of course each with their own food - to clarify this, because no housewife could make such a large meal. It was with families - parents with children, siblings, that's how they went. And with friends.

My mother and father had no relatives here, but they had friends. So we gathered, did the Haggadah. The Haggadah was mainly heard in Ladino there at least in the house where I did, and in Hebrew the children. We went either to Rasel's or Touka's. My father knew all the Haggadah in Ladino to say it. My mother nothing - from Volos. But okay, the holidays were beautiful. There was very great connection.

Here - these are the Jewish apartment buildings. There are four apartment buildings, if I remember correctly, with six apartments per building. There was great connection, great love. People rushed to help each other. No one felt alone. Whether you'd have a coffee with a neighbor or anything. People were present in everything that happened to you. And that was important - the connections between people. Which now is a bit more difficult for many reasons.

Luna: Let me make a parenthesis. I who came from Karditsa, I was 19 years old. My mother necessarily couldn't come much, because she had 3 other children behind who were in elementary school - my younger sister.

If I didn't have - I say it and say it again - all the people, what Anita said, who helped me... That is, I asked them to give me something, I asked how to make this, they held my baby. I didn't know what was happening to me, because from school I found myself here - I hadn't completed 20 and had a child and was married in another place. Completely unknown.

But many people here... I had here 2 people in the apartment building - then I called them "big ones." But now when I often do my calculations, they were in their 45s and 50s then. But I who was 20, saw them differently - because we see everything according to the position we're in.

Everyone helped me. I never asked anyone for anything or to show me something and they said no. Everyone.

Michalis: How many people in total?

Anita: Look, we were 24 families. About 4 people each, we were around 100 people more or less.

With children we played hide and seek, chase, little theater, ampariza. It was different. And because the space was closed, there was no fear that the children would leave. Many of our Christian friends also came. That is, Daviko the son had Kostas Agorastos who is the regional governor who was. That is, they grew up here. They are all about the age of our children.

Michalis: What were your parents' names?

Anita: My father Iosafat Frances and he was born and raised in Larissa. My mother Eftychia Cohen and she was from Volos as I told you before.

Both were saved during the occupation - no one went to camps. My father with his family took refuge in Athens, in Kaisariani. He worked either on the street selling cigarettes, or as a porter and such. A door fell on his head then which left him deaf. They went up to Pelion. A family helped them a lot - I don't remember their name. Who however later were also declared Righteous Among the Nations, because they saved my grandmother's large family.

My grandmother was alone, she had 7 children. They helped them a lot. So they rightfully received the title of Righteous Among the Nations.

They had a shop. After the war, you know, everything was difficult. They opened a shop with novelties. Both worked. We helped a lot at home and with cleanliness and at school. We managed well.

Michalis: How did your parents meet?

Anita: Matchmaking. Most were from matchmaking then, and in different cities, and with big age differences. They introduced them, they found each other, got married, had us.

My sister now lives in Volos, is married, has one child. I have two.

Michalis: Where do you live now?

Anita: I live in Thessaloniki. I am General Secretary of the Thessaloniki Community - the first woman to participate in the Council. So I also feel very nice when I say it - one of the firsts.

Michalis: Until what age did you stay in Larissa?

Anita: I stayed until I was 18. Then I went as a bride to Thessaloniki. I also got married quickly. I finished a school in Athens - Advertising, Public Relations and Marketing. In Thessaloniki I met my husband, we got married.

I sent both children to Jewish school - there was no chance. Not all Thessalonians sent their children to Jewish school for various reasons. I said that even if I lived in Peraia, I would take them on foot - I wanted them to have my experience and my education. So good was Larissa's school.

And Thessaloniki's school is also very good. Here I want to say that the community's structure is oriented toward giving education. The community gives a lot of money for people's education. It supports them from elementary school, as students it takes care that they go to good schools, later as university students... generally it accompanies them until studies are completed. At every stage the community is beside them practically - and not only morally, both morally and practically.

It looks when they are at an age for children to organize seminars. Sometimes there were more trips for connecting, for there to be connection between cities and between Jewish cities. For people to meet so they can make plans together.

Generally the community is very caring regarding bringing people into contact with each other, opening their minds and creating beautiful things - beautiful families, beautiful jobs, to feel good about themselves.

The community is very caring. It is anyway one of the three purposes of the community - the philanthropic, the religious and the educational. In the educational we really give everything.

Michalis: Let me take you back a bit to Larissa. To what degree did you observe customs in your own home as a child?

Anita: Great. Look, as I told you before, my mother was Romaniote. My father was from Larissa families. We observed the customs.

Now as for our Rosh Hashanah, my father didn't want to open the shop and always went to synagogue. My mother however said: "Okay, we can open the shop, we'll close for Yom Kippur."

We got up in the morning, kissed father's hand, went to synagogue for Yom Kippur, sat for a while, fasted as much as we could. Then the food waited for us - mother had everything perfect. She wasn't religious, wasn't devout, but she observed the customs. And she made sure we had Jewish education - mainly this our parents cared about. They didn't look at religiosity, they looked at education.

Michalis: Were there foods you didn't eat at home?

Anita: Of course. Pork never. But shrimp and the rest, yes, we ate them and enjoyed them.

Michalis: Mrs. Luna?

Luna: Yes, and I from the beginning when I got married, all our holidays and all Sabbaths I observe. As education, we were at my mother-in-law's. This was the law - to be at my mother-in-law's. Until my children grew up, made families.

I haven't left - my husband doesn't want to leave his house on holidays. We are very religious and a traditional family. I will make everything, everything, everything on holidays with what's needed. My children gather.

Before when I was a bit younger - before coronavirus I can say - although this little house was small, here this table opens, another one came in and I gathered up to twenty people. And I didn't want them to bring, to make their own food. I wanted, I said: "I'm making them a table, it will be with my own food."

I usually gathered people besides family who were alone, because I remember they said...

Anita: Me too the same.

Luna: Yes, it's a mitzvah. I remember they said that no one should remain alone on holidays. And especially at Passover, my mother-in-law left the door half-open for any poor person who wanted to enter.

Anita: "Elijah to come out."

Luna: "Elijah to come out," they said then, for everyone to come inside.

Anita: And a chair.

Luna: No one should remain alone and hungry, she said, on these days.

Michalis: What was your mother-in-law's name?

Luna: Lili Nachmoul was her maiden name, Lili Arar when she married my father-in-law.

Michalis: And if I understood correctly, every Sabbath you went to your mother-in-law's?

Luna: Yes, to my mother-in-law here. She cooked on Friday evening and the mesaki was. They didn't know so many foods, but they were very tasty. They were set, they didn't know anything else. But we all had to eat together.

My mother-in-law had a big old house that now has become an apartment building of course. She had a huge - as big as this house with everything here - was just the hall. And she had two bedrooms on one side, two bedrooms on the other.

She lived with... That is, my mother-in-law were two siblings - brother and sister my mother-in-law and her brother. They got married, had two rooms the mother, two rooms the other and one common table. Everyone ate together, everyone sat together on holidays and every day of Passover.

Until they grew old, died that is. But never - because we were many people - they never left the house. That is, people came to the house and they passed this on to us.

Michalis: What did you usually cook for Sabbath?

Luna: For Sabbath I always make meat at my house. Meat with various meat dishes and definitely little pastries with mince or pie. I roll very nice pastry and make nice pie.

Anita: That is, I will say it in the video and to everyone, that when I gave birth and Luna came to see the baby, instead of bringing us sweets, she brought us pie. And we all said: "Glory to God, such beautiful pie and such a beautiful thought" - instead of sweets for someone to bring you pie. Because you also use the pie normally for food, if you want with a little yogurt and with an egg.

Luna: Those years, both my mother-in-law and my mother... We today make the pie like this to have a little pie to eat before or after. Whatever we said "pie," "we have pie today," the pie was food.

We took those glass ones that were in the glass yogurts and a little egg and ouzo on Friday evening. There's no chance - and even today when it's me with my husband, we're old people - we'll make either spitsoula or a little burek and a little egg. We don't eat food now, we've grown old. But we'll make these - there's no chance Friday evening we won't have the egg with the pie.

Anita: And in Thessaloniki community the same happens too - it's the traditional food. The little burek or the pie and the egg.

Luna: And in Larissa before coronavirus, in our club - and before our synagogue was damaged, now we're fixing it until Passover it will be ready - we all gathered there, took pies, eggs and gathered. We gathered all those who after synagogue there, after synagogue.

Now many things have changed, let's say, after coronavirus and since our synagogue was damaged. Coronavirus changed many things for us, yes.

Michalis: How often did you go to synagogue?

Luna: Every week I go.

Michalis: Still?

Luna: Yes. Now in winter I don't go Friday evening, because we here are not 6-6:30 o'clock that Sabbath says like they do in Athens. We are 9 o'clock the shops close to go. So for me now this time it's very difficult. But in the morning I go on Sabbath.

Michalis: This was always in Larissa, to start at the end of market hours?

Luna: Yes, yes, yes. 9 o'clock it became when always. The shops had to close. How would he survive, if he wasn't at his shop? No one else could leave the shop to go. So we made our own law in Larissa.

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Summary:

The interview presents testimonies from Luna Arar (born 1946, Karditsa) and Anita Pinto from the Jewish apartment buildings of Larissa.

Luna describes Jewish life in pre-war Karditsa with thirty families who traveled to Trikala for major holidays, as well as her relocation to Larissa in 1966. Anita, who grew up in the Jewish apartment buildings, refers to Larissa's excellent Jewish school with beloved teacher Yaakov Felous.

The central point is the Jewish apartment buildings where 24 families (about 100 people) created a tight community of mutual aid. The women describe maintaining traditions - from weekly Sabbath with traditional pie and egg, to Passover holidays where 30 people gathered reading the Haggadah in Hebrew and Ladino.

The interview highlights the role of education in shaping Jewish identity and the continuation of tradition by younger generations.