Michalis Daskalakis Giontis: Today is December 5th, the time is 7:19 in the evening. We are here with Mrs. Rita Moysis and Mrs. Anita Pinto. My name is Michalis Daskalakis Giontis and we are at the first lady's home in Larissa.

Mrs. Rita, we thank you from the bottom of our hearts for welcoming us into your home and we also thank you for the knowledge you will now give us because you are a special case for all of us. No, no, no. Both as a person, but also as the wife of Mr. Estra, we all remember with great appreciation the work he left behind, which is valuable for all of us - the book, which is something that everyone should read. All of us who are Jews and especially the presidents of the communities. To give a guideline, to understand what it means to be Jewish and to understand the meaning, the essence of Judaism. And what it means to be our community president. It's not just the position that makes it. It's all the knowledge.

Mrs. Rita: The knowledge, the actions and the love. The love and how it guides things so that there is connection, so that there is development, so that there is a Jewish soul.

Well, after the war, anyway during the war, I was four years old. I have no memories. And what I have is from the many stories I heard, let's say, and I have such terrible hearings.

We had left, we had gone to a village up in Karya of Olympus and to get there we had to pass through a place that was shepherds' huts. And there it happened, this place is called Karalakos. And there was a battle there in Karalakos, between Germans and Partisans and such. We were there then, in the huts, our family. And other families were there too, the Cohens, Hanoula's grandmother's, yours, all these nephews. And other families there. And we were hiding there.

Michalis: About how many, Mrs. Rita, I wanted to ask you this question, but you preceded me. About how many Jews were still there, in total with you then there in the place where you were hiding?

Mrs. Rita: Ah, there. Roughly. There were about thirty people.

Michalis: Okay.

Mrs. Rita: Yes. Families, now there were families with two people, there were also families with six. There were people and there somewhere. Yes, we were hiding there, finally it passed, I have a photograph of this. The only photograph that exists in Greece, showing how we were there. I don't know who took it of us. We didn't feel like taking photographs, nor did we have cameras. Someone says that some Italian passed by and took it of us and Lika, the Cohen, had the original. And I took it and made copies. I have it, I'll bring it to you.

Michalis: Was aunt Lika also there in the photograph?

Mrs. Rita: Yes, Lika was there too, Achilles, he was her husband. She wasn't married yet.

We were hiding there, until someone passed by, because my father was a court clerk, here in Larissa. And he was there. I want to say, the only one at that age who was educated, because all the others, you know, were stoves, these things, various crafts. Well, and he took leave then to save the family. He took unpaid leave, he didn't know when he would return. And we went there.

And when someone who had served him passed by there, in a court, in one of his trials. And he says, what are you doing here, Cohen. He tells him, what can I say, he says, we came here, we're taking care of the family, I'm trying to save them and such. And where will you go from here. I'll go, he says, up to Karya. How will you go, on foot. What are you saying now, he says, I'll send you, he says, animals and you'll go up and you'll go. And really the next day he sent donkeys, excuse me. And we went up and went to Karya. And in Karya we had a good time.

And I can say that I remember some moments there. I remember, let's say, that I had a very beautiful cousin, and her mother was there of course and the boys, and a very beautiful cousin and we were there together in Karya and she loved me very much when we went. And when we went for a walk once, in Karya, Roula tells me, my sister who was older, she says, wait let's go together, you don't remember. I say, let me see, I remember. And I went ahead, I went straight to the house where we stayed. It had impressed me but I didn't know it.

And we stayed there for some months, until the liberation of Larissa, on October 23rd, which was in '43, no lies, in '44.

We came here to Larissa afterwards, where it was very difficult, how do you say it, to find our footing here. There were no clothes in the wardrobes, everything looted. There were clothes then.

Michalis: Did UNRRA send clothes then?

Mrs. Rita: Yes, then. It started like that. UNRRA sent, sent... Yes, packages came with clothes and packages that had food, sugar, flour, various such very necessary things, let's say, they sent. Yes, it helped us a lot. And we went then. Anyway, we came down and started building our life.

My father naturally went to work and when they saw him there, they greeted him with love, with those who came finally, a friend of his says "I'll come to your house, he says, to see the family too." "Don't come, he says, because we don't even have a glass to give you water." He tells him.

Michalis: But you found your belongings.

Mrs. Rita: Yes, and finally we found an old cup somewhere, we washed it and drank water from it. All of us.

Michalis: Did you return to the house where you lived before?

Mrs. Rita: No, we went because then the state made, how do you say it, requisitioned houses. It sent us to a basement of a house where there was a colleague, upstairs was a colleague of my father's, who didn't see us with a good eye. He didn't want Jews there, he didn't want them and they threw dirty water at us every day in front when we came out and such. Well finally we left and went to the house of Benios Levi, Michalis Levi, his father. It was in the same position as my old one was there.

Michalis: What happened to your paternal home, Mrs. Rita?

Mrs. Rita: Our first one that we left when we departed was on Palamidou street.

Michalis: Was it yours or was it rented?

Mrs. Rita: No, all rented, it was two rooms each. And the other one we found here, was somewhere far towards the barracks and then we found one at Michalis's. I'm telling Anita about Michalis now because Michalis was our friend. And Michalis was the former president of the community and we stayed there at their house. We took two rooms and they had another two, three, four I know. We had two adjoining rooms.

My sister started working there as a seamstress. Of course after we went to school, yes the school is important to say that we went to school but we didn't go to the Jewish one.

Michalis: Did it exist?

Mrs. Rita: It existed of course, all the others went to the Jewish school. We didn't go to the Jewish one because Roula my sister, we went initially to the Jewish one and there was a bad teacher there. And she kept saying let's say something went to say about the Jews and such and Roula didn't want to go.

Michalis: How was there a Jewish school immediately after the war, how was it created?

Mrs. Rita: Look, there was a Rabbi here, Kasuto.

Michalis: Bravo.

Mrs. Rita: Yes, who made the school as religious let's say he started. Yes. He started like that with such, your dad went there, Isdras went there and he did it like that. There our parents learned Hebrew and that age of her dad and such. They learned Hebrew, the first Hebrew and the good Hebrew. That is, they know how to read, they knew how to read because they learned these things from Kasuto.

Well and we didn't go there while we didn't know if they could accept us in another public school. Public. My dad went to the principal who knew him. He tells him my children want, he says they want to come to a school, can they. How can't they, who told you. And we went to the fourth school which was the best school. It was Larissa's model school and we went there.

I can't say that we had signs of anti-Semitism let's say, we didn't have. Nothing like that. Taunts. Simply. Only taunts. Not even taunts, we had some moments, some.

And I remember then, of course we didn't provoke anyone. We were friends with all the children and all the children loved us. And we also had a principal teacher who was very good and very upright. And this what does it mean he says Jews and Christians, we are all the same and such.

At some point we had at school let's say, we were divided into good students and less good ones. These good ones undertook now because then there were no tutoring centers, nor were the parents educated, the good ones undertook to make groups let's say, to help the children progress. And the principal teacher chose them and put me in a group let's say like that to be the leader.

So someone comes out and says, I'm not going to Rita's house. She says why don't you go, because they are Jews and they will put us on needles. She tells her you'll go and tell me what needles they put you on for me to go too. She tells her later. But after she came to my house and saw my mother's care and all that and how we were and we didn't have needles and such. She liked it very much and I can say that we are friends even now.

Well these are. After carnival we dressed up as carnival, various now I don't know about Purim I'll say. When all the trunks opened. For whatever you could imagine to come out from inside. To dress up as carnival. With tablecloths. With sheets and such. We made them but we had good fun. We didn't wait for ready-made costumes to go buy them. We had good fun at the Club all the children together and we never had distinctions. Neither poorer nor richer we were.

Something happened, someone had a celebration. Let's say they would invite all the Jews. List everyone. Not for someone to be missing because I don't have them as a friend. We were all friends. Yes. We were loved, we were all the same as I told you and such.

Now after, we from there from Levi's house stayed there until Roula got engaged and then we left and went to another house. And then they built the apartment buildings here as Anita showed you and we went there, we had a big yard there and we were many Jewish families and we had a very good time.

If you see what I had written about why immediately after Purim we started work for Passover and we had divided the yard, we had divided the yard which was huge into four parts, each apartment building had its Passover. They swept it, whitewashed it, prepared it for Passover and such and I say how can you not start doing work when you see opposite the happiness that I brought everything out.

The work for Passover started the day after Purim. We started whitewashing, upheavals. Drawers. The drawers. To wash these covers. Has. And all these to be washed, to be cleaned and such.

And after we finished our own work we went to the community to do work.

Michalis: Where?

Mrs. Rita: Inside the synagogue we went to clean the chandeliers, to clean the doors, the windows and such. The evening of Passover, that is, the synagogue had to be ready. Together with our house. We left from there. We went home. Very rested. Yes. And we sat down and the seder began.

The eldest of the family, usually the grandfather said the kiddush and then we all followed. We kept all the customs very well. During the days we didn't eat bread. Yes. It was forbidden to eat. Or for the children to eat outside, to take anything. They had no money, they had no such things. Yes. And we ate before Passover we ate all the pasta, bread, whatever we had, all these so they would leave, to be clean for Passover. Yes.

And then we also did this custom. The custom where we hid all the chametz. Yes. So that there would be no chametz in the house. All in one closet. Yes. And everything else was kosher for Passover, it was for Passover. Yes. And they hid, they also scattered some crumbs. Yes. For someone to find them, what do you call this. Ah the one who searches for chametz. Yes, searching for chametz. Yes. They scattered some crumbs to find them and say that we throw these away and these are the last ones. Yes.

Michalis: When did this happen during the night?

Mrs. Rita: Before Passover. Exactly. The eve of Passover. Before Passover. Yes until the eve. Like that. Until the eve. When we were at the table, we said beautifully. We paid him. And the whole custom was for him to buy the chametz from us. Something like that. Ah with the searching for chametz. Yes. Whoever bought it or won something. He supposedly bought it. Yes. Yes. He from us. Yes. Yes. Where the chametz went. Yes. Yes.

Michalis: And the one who bought it was some neighbor, was some friend?

Mrs. Rita: Nice anyway. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And we didn't leave alone the families who had nowhere to go or had no relatives. We remember, we always took Mrs. Roula, the Yacoels. Ah that's her. Yes. She always came for Passover.

These after Passover passed like that. My father who was in public service took leave, but not for all the days. Not for all the, main ones, because my father besides being religious let's say, he wasn't very religious, he wasn't that sick, but he was at the synagogue, he was a Cohen and he did the priestly blessing at the synagogue and he had a voice, a melodic voice that everyone still remembers. Like Cohen's voice in Larissa there wasn't.

Michalis: What was your father's name?

Mrs. Rita: Iosif Cohen. Well and we went there. Now you ask those if they had special clothing for holidays and such. Yes, we had something, no. We didn't have anything special. With their good clothes, with the tallit, he said indeed, with the tallit bag. And the kippah inside. Yes, inside the tallit and the kippah and they went to the synagogue like that.

As for the women though, Rosh Hashanah especially, I went now to Rosh Hashanah. Yes, Rosh Hashanah especially. They sewed, they sewed clothes for the next Rosh Hashanah holiday. So much we had it, yes.

Anita: And not only that Mrs. Rita. Do you remember? And those mothers who had girls who weren't married here and were from Thessaloniki, from Athens and they came. They took us after Yom Kippur and took us to the market, I remember this, to buy us clothes. Yes, to give us gifts. And you say their shops are closed. We sat for one-two hours in the service, very well dressed so people wouldn't say there was or if it was foreign. It was in the market and they bought us whatever we wanted, gifts that is.

Mrs. Rita: But this was. Yes, yes, yes. This was. It was within the customs that existed. But fasting in the market. Yes. Yom Kippur, we kept the fast. Yes, we all kept Yom Kippur and we didn't suffer, we didn't do Yom Kippur there. Not that they forced us, but we wanted to. We wanted to say that we keep Yom Kippur. Yes.

And now I tell you, okay, with the special foods that existed then, that we made.

Michalis: Tell us a few words about the foods?

Mrs. Rita: Yes. There is a code let's say that has certain foods that are eaten when we make the prayers for Rosh Hashanah. Let's say because, yes, because it's a holiday of trees and fruits that come out that season usually, we make a prayer for the thing. For the leek let's say. Making various leek fritters, and such. We make one for spinach, we make for the apple which we usually dip, we must dip it in honey or something else and good you say. We dip it in honey so our life will be sweet. This symbolizes. Yes. The round symbolizes the apple of life and we dip it in honey so our life will be sweet and a good year.

Anita: Also, another thing these are fruits that grow in Israel. It just came to us ready with these fruits. But essentially we do what Mrs. Rita said. It's the code of the new fruits that the earth gives this period. Because we have summer fruits and winter ones. This from the Talmud, Mrs. Rita, I remember. Yes, yes, yes. From the Talmud.

Michalis: Do you remember what blessing you said on Rosh Hashanah?

Mrs. Rita: Rosh Hashanah begins, we say shana tova, good year. Shana tova, may it be sweet. And then, we enter the ten days that go to Yom Kippur and we say gmar chatima tova. That is, good inscription. Good inscription.

Within the prayers of Rosh Hashanah, there is, much is heard about the enemies of the Jews and such. To be many, no, we also put pomegranate, pomegranate, which symbolizes that we should be many let's say, may we become more and more each time with the seeds.

Anita: We say for the pomegranate, it symbolizes abundance and the 613. We say for the Straight... As many as the seeds of the pomegranate are, so should our good deeds be. This is the rabbinic version. The normal version is to have abundance like the pomegranate has abundance, it's the rabbinic version and it's also the mystical version. And we also eat fish to be abundant and countless like the fish in the sea. And we also do... we also keep a little of the fish head to be the head and not... To be leaders and not followers.

Michalis: Did you want to say something about the enemies of the Jews?

Mrs. Rita: Yes, that is we curse them in some way there. You're right. Yes, we take care to make it a little lighter, especially when we have people, because we now have Christians in the family and such. We try to make it lighter.

Michalis: How?

Mrs. Rita: Because by putting a little, making a little, we sugarcoat them, the pill as they say.

Now we go to Yom Kippur. We went to Yom Kippur, we did it. We do, we eat early in the evening, in the afternoon let's say, on the eve of Yom Kippur. We eat a good meal, depending on what each person likes, I don't know. Without it being something like Passover where we eat, we don't eat pasta and such. No, Yom Kippur there is no... No restriction. Yes, there is no restriction.

We eat a good meal on the eve, at six o'clock. And then we go to the synagogue, more men let's say, go, we women. We sit at home, we rest after so many days. But when the fair happened that we all went. Yes, this I would say.

For us then here in Larissa, it coincides September 24th, we have here the Larissa fair, which is famous. Then the fair was held at Alkazar down in the park and it was very beautiful then. We all waited to come out of the synagogue and go straight to the fair. And all go eat halva. Although we had to fast, not eat. Yes, okay, but it says this doesn't count. To catch.

Yes, we all went there, we waited outside to meet, to gather and go to the fair all the groups.

After we didn't eat of course all day and those who could keep it. Now there were also people who were sick or who were elderly. Okay, we kept until the next day when the first star came out. Then the service ended and we ate normally.

Of course, the services in the synagogue were very beautiful and very melodic and very symbolic. All the prayers and such have great and many symbols, which now okay are not explained in a few minutes. Anyway they were like that. And moving and they said such beautiful words and for those who died who were some presidents of the community or rabbis, all these.

And the service went on continuously until 7 o'clock. So then came the time for the shofar. Which sounded and was our joy then. We women left running to heat the food.

Now for several years Vizo takes care, she brings out some sweets, some cookies and some orange juice and such, to break the fast there and go home a little more comfortably. Yes, where another meal starts again with sweet first of all, may the year be sweet and then completely normal food, soup mainly, the first course was soup so it wouldn't be heavy.

Michalis: Was the sweet something special, some special sweet?

Mrs. Rita: We ate, we eat quince that we make sweet, grated and we eat a spoonful of such quince. My mother said that she too in the war cut the sweet of the end.